[00:00:04] Speaker A: Welcome to two Travel Dads podcast. Here we share our favorite destinations, travel tips, stories from our adventures, and tips for saving money. Be sure to subscribe and check out our detailed show
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[00:00:21] Speaker B: Hey, welcome back to another episode of two Travel Dads podcast. I'm Rob, and I've got my pal Angie, who she was with us before chatting all about the Bahamas.
She's back. Hello, Angie. Say hello.
[00:00:36] Speaker C: Hi, Rob.
[00:00:38] Speaker B: Today we are. I'm really excited because I've gotten to write two books, and you have a book coming out, and I'm really thrilled to actually hear about the creation of your book because flirting with disaster is such a different genre of book. It's a different level of personal story than my books. So I'm really thrilled to dig into that and kind of expose you to the world.
[00:01:11] Speaker C: Well, you know, might as well get it over with, because once the book's out, everybody's going to know everything anyway. So let's do this.
[00:01:21] Speaker B: Let's. Let's kind of start at the beginning. If you guys are unfamiliar with Angie, this is Miss Angie Orth. She runs, has been, she's worked in pr. She's been kind of my boss lady in the past. Now she's my esteemed colleague. What else would you like people to know about you before we start talking about your book?
[00:01:42] Speaker C: Gosh. I'm also the podcast host for traveling with aa. That's relatively new. So super fun. I'm an actual podcast host myself now. And I love it.
[00:01:53] Speaker B: And I love it. I love listening to your episodes. You are a good hostess.
[00:01:57] Speaker C: I love it so much. I didn't know. I don't know. I've been missing out on podcasting. It's really fun.
[00:02:03] Speaker B: I know it a lot. It's like, for all of us who wanted to be radio djs when we were a kid, because we'd call into radio stations, now we get to do it ourselves.
[00:02:11] Speaker C: Yes. I should start playing songs, too. Just be like, this one goes out to all the lovers tonight.
[00:02:16] Speaker B: I would love that. Well, here's a question. Going out to all the potential writers in the world, why did you write a book? What inspired you to want to? Because I remember years ago you saying, I'm working on my book, I'm going to work on my book. This is going to happen. And I never knew what you had planned on writing about, but there was clearly always this wild hair you had to follow.
[00:02:39] Speaker C: Yeah, it's always been there. I don't know. I was a voracious reader as a kid, and I loved that escapism into other worlds. And then travel became a part of my life. And I don't know, it just always seemed like the thing I was going to do, like the ultimate dream, right, was to write a traditionally published book. And I didn't always know what that was going to look like, but I did always know that I wanted to do it, and I always knew that I wanted to be a writer. And I have done that in so many different ways between pr and marketing and as a blogger and as a freelance journalist.
So I don't know, I think this is just sort of the next step in my writing journey and truly the culmination of my life dreams, my life's work thus far.
[00:03:31] Speaker B: Yeah.
The way that your book is set up, the way you've described it to me, almost sounds like it is a memoir written in the style of a novel. Do I understand that correctly? Because I haven't gotten to read your book yet. You haven't sent me an arc.
[00:03:49] Speaker C: I know. I'm working on it. It's coming.
Yes. So it's a memoir. And I would say, yeah, it kind of is set up like a novel. It's got a plot, it's got the ups and downs, it's got the ending and the build up. It's got all those things. I took all that into account when I was writing it. And I suppose there are lessons to be learned and there's a lot in there about the things I did wrong, but not so much like beating you over the head with it. Like, here's what I did, and you should do this. There's nothing like that. It's really just, this is my story. This is what I did. This is how it worked out. And here we are. So, definitely has all the plot and plot twists that you might expect in a novel, but it's all true.
[00:04:33] Speaker B: But it's all true. I love that.
[00:04:35] Speaker C: But it's all true.
[00:04:35] Speaker B: That's a great tagline.
[00:04:37] Speaker C: Yeah.
[00:04:38] Speaker B: Really something else that you've mentioned in the past when we've talked about this, you've got stories from travel, stories from work. You've also talked about that there is some elements of kind of the spiritual warfare side of stuff in your life. Do you feel like you were able to really tell more intensely personal stories writing it for a book than you would normally share, either via the blog in your monthly recaps that you do, or via social media? Do you feel like you've really peeled back a layer that is uncomfortable 100%.
[00:05:15] Speaker C: I think people who have known me all these years are going to be surprised at the things they learn about me and the things they never knew, the things that went on during the time that the book is set. Things about growing up in my childhood, it's so much more personal. It's truly not like anything I've ever written, ever. So I was really happy that I got to write the book that I wanted to and didn't have to fit it into any other I write travel guide kind of stuff. And so I was always worried that that's what I would be pigeonholed into as a writer. But I really did get to write the book I wanted and tell the story that I wanted. But, yeah, it's travel. It's a travel story. It takes place that's sort of the whole foundation is the travel and the places that we go to and the sights and the smells and the adventures. But there's so much more in that. There's, gosh, like you said, spiritual stuff, scary stuff, relationship stuff, just all these things that you don't get the luxury of talking about on your travel blog, because travel blogs, you have to answer people's questions, not rattle on about the guy you dated in London. So it's definitely different. Yeah.
[00:06:35] Speaker B: Chapter two.
So with that and getting to write those stories and tell those, did you find, because I've been through the book writing process where you're submitting your words to an editor, they are sometimes giving you feedback that you're completely not ready for. And sometimes they're like, this is great. I fixed some grammar.
Did you feel like each time that you kind of peeled back another chapter that you were going to be told, oh, this can't be in the book, or this has no place in this sort of storytelling? Was there anything like that that really discouraged you in the process?
[00:07:16] Speaker C: Probably. The real, I don't know, obstacle, discouragement has been myself this whole time. It's insecurity in my story. And should I say this, and do I have the chops and can I do it? And does anybody want to read this? And all that kind of nonsense you go through in your head.
I would say as an artist, just anybody who creates you wonder if anybody's going to receive this from you in the way you intended it. It's really been me kind of in my own way. My editor was amazing.
She had some incredible suggestions, and nothing that broke my heart or ruined my life or my day. It was all just really professional. And I'm like, yes, I should cut that paragraph out. You're so right. That's superfluous. I don't need that. Or questioning a word choice. And usually I could just say, no, I picked it because of this. And they're like, oh yeah, that makes sense. So it was such a nice collaboration. And I think as bloggers we don't really have anyone looking over our shoulder at our work except readers who also.
[00:08:22] Speaker B: Want to be trolls.
[00:08:24] Speaker C: True. Well, you're always going to have the trolls, right? But it's a little bit different. So I appreciated the whole new professional level of feedback on my writing. I just haven't had anything like that. And it was very encouraging because everybody at my publisher loved it and instantly they were just giving me great feedback and I was like, are you guys lying the whole time? I'm like, do you guys say that to all the writers? And it's been really positive. And the one thing I'm worried about with the book coming out is that it is so personal. It's a good book.
I'm a good writer. It's a good book. It's funny, but it's not for everyone.
And I think a lot of folks will review something really negatively. That's not for them. So I guess nobody wants to get a bad review. But that's coming.
[00:09:16] Speaker B: Yeah.
I think that's one thing to always keep in mind in anything is don't read the comments.
So a question about that though, and knowing that you had a really good collaboration, what was the process like for you both in getting somebody to buy into your story or shopping for a publisher? Is that something that you really have some big takeaways with in case you do? I don't know if you got in your contract to option for a second.
Is it something where you have some tips or advice about the shopping for a publisher?
[00:09:55] Speaker C: I don't know that I have any tips about that specifically, but I will say that publishing is insane and it makes no sense. And the way that things are done are not necessarily the most efficient way or the way I would do things. So things could be different and they're not. And one of those things is that I had an agent. So first thing I did was get a literary agent.
Did that first. And with that I sent them a book proposal. And then once I was signed by a literary agent, we worked on the proposal together, made it really pretty, and then they shopped it around to the publishers on my behalf. And that's because I had it in my head that I really wanted a traditional publisher. And I don't think there's anything wrong with indie publishing at all. I just felt like I wanted the built in marketing, and I just wanted somebody who knew the things. And I just wanted to be able to focus on the story. So that was kind of my idea with that. But there are many ways to publish a book in the year of our Lord 2024. A million ways. And so whatever works, if that's your dream, you can do it now so much easier than you could way back in the day. It does not have to be traditionally published.
There are options. So I would just say to people, ask around, talk to people who've done it, and get honest feedback on what your book is. Because I think a lot of us don't necessarily know what we have until we talk it through with some folks who've maybe been through it before. Not every book in the world is meant to be a traditionally published book.
That's just how it works. And then not every book in the world should be indie. It really depends on the book, so it helps to have feedback.
[00:11:52] Speaker B: Do you feel like what you had in your mind for your book, really?
You said that you got to create the book you wanted. Did it morph from your initial impression and idea of, I want to create a memoir, I want it to be traditionally published. Did it morph from being very kind of dialogue based, perhaps, to being much more of like, a third person storytelling? I haven't read your book yet, so what is your kind of voice to it? Or where did that land as you actually put it on paper?
[00:12:29] Speaker C: For one thing, it took me ten years of hemming and hawing and fits and starts to actually get it to a place where I was comfortable even sending it to somebody. It took me four months to write the first chapter to where I was comfortable sending it to somebody, because I'm like, I know I have it in me.
I just don't want to send out something that's not ready.
Wow, that was a whole thing. But I will say it didn't morph that much. A couple of things that morphed. The tense that I told the story in. After I had written my first draft of the whole book, I woke up in the middle of the night and I was like, this whole book needs to be in first person and, like, first person present right now. And so I changed everything.
[00:13:19] Speaker B: That's a massive overhaul.
[00:13:22] Speaker C: Yeah, it was. And I very nearly asked someone if I could do it. And then I was like, you know what? I'm not going to ask. And then I just did it. And one of the favorite pieces of feedback I got because I just sent it to my editor. She didn't know what was coming, and I sent it to her. And three weeks later, when she got back to me, she was like, do you know how hard it is to write a first person present book? And she's like, and you did it and it's great. Oh, thank God.
[00:13:49] Speaker B: Oh, yeah.
[00:13:50] Speaker C: I was so nervous.
[00:13:51] Speaker B: The skill of that and not incorporating any form of foreshadowing or being able to allude to the knowledge that you do have of a story, I would feel so stifled.
[00:14:09] Speaker C: Well, it was challenging, too, because there are flashbacks in the book, so that's in a different tense. And then all of it took place. I mean, the majority of the story took place in 2011 when I was traveling around the world by myself. So I even made sure that songs I mentioned and artists I mentioned and things like that, I wanted to make sure that that happened then or before then. I didn't want any new Britney Spears tunes sliding in there. I had to make sure that everything was 2011 and before accurate. So there were things I thought of like that, and I fact checked to death. I am fully terrified that there's going to be some layering thing that nobody caught. But I don't know, I guess that's being a writer, right? You're just a little bit terrified all the time.
[00:14:56] Speaker B: Totally. Well, so that is being a writer and with that and knowing that that's kind of the state that you're in right now is you're in that limbo between I'm done and it's ready and come out at this exact moment. Are you thinking I want to do this again?
[00:15:14] Speaker C: Yes, I'm thinking I want to do this forever because writing the book, this is the kind of storytelling I want to do, the kind of storytelling I've always wanted to do. And then you get pulled in different directions and all writing is not equal. So, yes, I wrote thousands of words a day as a publicist. That is not the same kind of storytelling and same thing for blog posts. We have to think about things like SEO and reader intent and all of that. That's skillful and important and we do it, but it's not the same kind of storytelling. So I appreciated being able to tell this story with no thought to SEO or any such thing.
That was just a treasure. So I would love to keep doing it. I have probably four or five books outlined in my head and in my notes on my iPhone, and I fully intended to have a proposal ready by now for number two. But, yeah, you're still in process. Oh, gosh, it's such a weird limbo to be in because, yeah, I'm done. The hard part is done. Writing the book is done.
[00:16:31] Speaker B: So then what's next? I know what comes next because I've done this, but I'm curious because you. So I published with Simon and Schuster through Tiller Press, and you are with Hashette. So what is your next step while you are in limbo?
[00:16:46] Speaker C: Pretty much hang out. Marketing. Marketing and setting up interviews and trying to decide if a book tour makes any sense in 2024 and just thinking about calling in favors and doing all these things that you don't really want to do as a person with my personality. But it is what it is, and it's the marketing part of it that's no fun at all. And I think most authors hate it.
[00:17:16] Speaker B: Yeah, it's very awkward, not fun.
[00:17:19] Speaker C: It feels self serving, especially because the book is all about me.
Hey, guys, do me some favors and read all about my life and then let's talk about me some more.
[00:17:28] Speaker B: This side of it really feels more vulnerable than a lot of the writing.
[00:17:32] Speaker C: Yes. And I really went through it when I was writing it and pouring it all out on the page. Now when I read it, I'm like, oh, yeah, that's good. That came out well. I said what I wanted to say, but before it was on paper, it was just tumultuous. It was tornadoes inside my head. So it's very nice that it's all out there now. And the audiobook is recorded. I just finished that this week.
[00:17:57] Speaker B: Awesome.
[00:17:57] Speaker C: That was so much fun.
[00:18:03] Speaker B: I'm kind of curious because we're talking about this like it is this elusive genie in a bottle that we don't know what it's going to be like when it comes out. But you do. I would love not for you to give away the farm, but what is kind of the plotline? The storyline of Angie's life on paper.
[00:18:26] Speaker C: Yeah. So the general plot of flirting with disaster. And like you said, I won't give away too much because there's so many fun little surprises in there. But the general idea is I was working in New York City as a publicist and it was really fun, but I was working myself to death. And I just knew if I didn't get out of there to see the world, maybe I never would. And I had all these expectations from the south pulling me back home and you need to have kids and you need to get married and what are you doing with your life? So this year around the world was sort of my answer to all these expectations pulling me in different directions. New York had one idea, Florida had another idea, and just everybody wanted something different. And so this year was sort of, I need to go be quiet for a year. And as the title alludes, it wasn't quiet. There was nothing quiet about traveling alone for a year by myself. So there misadventures and near death experiences and just all the things that happen to you, you think you're going to have this blissful yoga, Bali Sunset life, and life is insane no matter where you go. So back home on the road, there's always going to be crazy things going on. So it's that story. It kind of gives you an idea of how I got to be where I am now as a professional content creator and whatever. That was the beginning of that for me. So it kind of walks you through very breezily, like how I got there and sort of the start of my career, but also with a lot of fun look backs at my very, shall we say, unique childhood.
[00:20:09] Speaker B: So knowing that you've got childhood, you've got career, you've got the travel and all of this into perspective, who would you say besides yourself? Because we do these projects for ourselves. Who did you write this book for?
Is there a specific either demographic or person at a certain point in their life where you're like, this is the type of person who just needs to read this and take it in?
[00:20:35] Speaker C: I would say probably broadly women, because it's one of those women's stories. I thought I was supposed to do this, and then I did this. And here's the conclusion I came to, and this is what I learned. It's kind of a coming of age story. So a little more specifically, I would say women maybe in their teens who are trying to figure things out and how to live life on their own terms, and maybe with a religious upbringing, that they're trying to figure out what that means as an adult women broadly, 20 something teen women more specifically, and then anybody who likes travel, I think, will really enjoy it.
The guys in the booth when I was recording the audiobook took four days, and I was just reading to them, and after every chapter, they were like, wow, what happens next? And these were men, like grown up men who do not know me. So I was very heartened to know that it was interesting for somebody who's not maybe the target demographic. And I mean, they were completely enraptured. And just every day they were like, oh, can't wait till tomorrow. We want to know what happens.
[00:21:47] Speaker B: That's awesome to be able to have a validating experience like that before it hits the shelves and before it's the public sharing their thoughts.
[00:21:59] Speaker C: It is. I mean, everybody who's read it, provided they've been honest with me, they've really liked it and they've been entertained. And in fact, one of the ladies in my Bible study, she read the chapter that I sent her to her daughters. She's got four daughters that are all 20 something and younger. And she sent me a video of them reading it, and they were all laughing, just laughing. And it made me cry because I was like, that's all I wanted it to do. I just want people to laugh and maybe see things a different way or see womanhood in a new light or whatever it is. There's a lot of ground covered, both literally and figuratively. So I hate when people say there's a little something for everyone, but I think everybody could probably find something that speaks to them in the book.
[00:22:46] Speaker B: You make a cliche sound good. How about that?
[00:22:49] Speaker C: Thanks for everyone.
[00:22:52] Speaker B: That's something you hear with so many books. But I get it because you are hitting on so many different kind of life themes that I may not be a woman looking back at my teens and 20s, but I get it.
[00:23:06] Speaker C: And I really think it applies to everybody because everybody's been in a place in their life where they weren't sure where to go next. Or what's the right choice? Or is there a right choice? Or is it just whatever choice you make? And then, of course it's the right choice because it's the one you've made. Like, how do you figure it out? What if you're single and you're 30 and that's like the kiss of death where you're from. There's just so many things, and I'm so honored and blown away that I got to write the book I wanted and tell the story that I wanted. So many people told me that was not going to happen.
And so I know how lucky I am that I really got to tell the story I wanted to.
[00:23:45] Speaker B: So then here's the kind of the final question I've got about this whole fantastic project you've created in the movie.
Who is going to play you?
[00:23:57] Speaker C: Reese Witherspoon. Excellent choice, of course. Although by the time a movie gets made, she's going to be, like, 60 and I'm going to be 55 or something. So maybe not her, but I always liked Reese Witherspoon. To play me in movies, I think.
[00:24:12] Speaker B: She would be great. Solid answer. And then for my character, because I know I'm in your book, never mind.
[00:24:18] Speaker C: Even though I didn't know you in 2011.
[00:24:21] Speaker B: Dang it.
[00:24:21] Speaker C: Oh, well, maybe you can be in book two or three.
[00:24:24] Speaker B: I would love that. So, you know, I have three novels started and I know, right. What am I going to do with them? I need to sit down and do it. And I've got to say, if there was one piece of advice or encouragement that you could give me, and I've already done two books, and I am at the point of, can I do this? Should I do this? Is this my time? What is your either little nugget of encouragement for me or just dose of reality that I need to hear?
I'm putting you on the spot with that one because that's kind of a heavy philosophical moment.
[00:25:03] Speaker C: I don't know if it's a nugget of encouragement, but maybe a little advice is write every day, even if it's just 10 minutes and set a timer. Because when I sit down and set a timer, I'm like, I'm going to do this for 20 minutes. Usually I do more, but it's the idea of saying, oh, I'm only going to do this. And I just sit down and I start doing it. Then the words start to flow. I think if you get out of the flow, that's when it just gets easier and easier and easier to kind of walk away from the project. And the more you're in it, if you're doing it daily, then your brain is marinating on it even when you're not writing. So it's kind of writing itself in your head.
[00:25:43] Speaker B: I think that's fantastic advice. That's kind of actually what I do need to hear, because I have every intent of conquering one of the books this year.
[00:25:54] Speaker C: You can do it. You've already done two. You have a podcast. You have two darling children.
You'll be fine. If anybody can do it, it's Mr. Energy over here.
[00:26:06] Speaker B: As I sit here dreaming about taking a nap this afternoon.
[00:26:09] Speaker C: I know.
[00:26:11] Speaker B: Well, is there anything else that you want to share, either about your book or where we'll be able to find it? What is the release date?
[00:26:19] Speaker C: The release date for? Here's the whole title. Flirting with the disaster, true travel, tales of fear, failure, and faith. I'm actually able to say that now without tripping all over myself.
It's a lot. It's a lot. I know there are a lot of things I learned about audiobooks. Like don't put in words you don't necessarily know how to pronounce. So I learned a lot. Got bitten there a couple of times, but comes out March twelveth. It'll be available anywhere you buy books. Walmart, Target, Amazon, Barnes and Noble, all the big guys.
If you want it in your local bookstore, all you have to do is ask and they can usually order it. Same thing. If you want it at your library, all you have to do is ask and they'll get it in. And that's also very helpful to me as a writer. And you can preorder it. Now. That's huge. That's something I've learned. Preordering is everything because if you don't move books your first week, your book kind of dies. Yeah, and I don't want my book to die.
[00:27:19] Speaker B: And there is a link in the show notes and also on our blog on twotraveldads.com to be able to pre order. And then once it's out to order, Angie's book flirting with disaster because I love getting to support not just my friends, but other writers and people who are following, as cheesy as it sounds, following their dreams and making it happen. I love it.
[00:27:43] Speaker C: Yeah. And we all do it in our own ways, but it's nice that we have our little supportive community patting each other on the back and saying, you can do it. If I could write this book and it took me ten years, I know that you will get yours done.
[00:27:57] Speaker B: Yeah, I will. I promise.
Thank you so much for being back with me, Angie. I really appreciate it. I'm excited for you and this journey, and I can't wait to have you back to talk about your next book. It's going to be exciting.
[00:28:10] Speaker C: Thank you for having me. Thank you for listening, everyone, and I'm excited about what's to come.
[00:28:17] Speaker B: Thanks for tuning in, everyone, and be sure to share this with somebody that you know needs a good book. And don't forget to hit that subscribe button and we will talk to you later.
[00:28:29] Speaker A: Two Travel Dads podcast is written and produced by Rob and Chris Taylor in St. Augustine, Florida. Check out past episodes in detailed show
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