[00:00:04] Speaker A: Welcome to Two Travel Dads Podcast. Here we share our favorite destinations, travel tips, stories from our adventures, and tips for saving money. Be sure to subscribe and check out our detailed show
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[00:00:23] Speaker B: Hey, welcome to Two Travel Dads Podcast. I'm Rob and I'm hosting today with my good friend Kate.
[00:00:30] Speaker C: Hello.
[00:00:31] Speaker B: And we have got a wonderful guest who's also my good friend, Tammy Lee. And hey, Tammy Lee.
[00:00:38] Speaker D: Hey.
[00:00:40] Speaker B: She is joining us from beautiful Gulf Shores, Alabama, today, which is such a happy and beautiful place with amazing sand. And it's a very joyful place. And we are going to talk about Joy and what we do in our lives that has really elevated, upped our joy game, because I know that it's something that Kate and I talk about. I feel like every single day.
[00:01:07] Speaker C: Yes.
[00:01:07] Speaker B: And both Tammy Lee and I have made big, huge life changes with that goal of just awesome joy in mind. So we're going to dig into that. Sound good?
[00:01:18] Speaker C: I love it.
[00:01:19] Speaker D: I love it so much.
[00:01:21] Speaker B: Excellent. So, I mean, the first thing that comes to mind when I think about you and your life recently is you made a huge life change going from Spokane, Washington, to the beach.
[00:01:39] Speaker D: Just a little change. Just a little one, right?
[00:01:41] Speaker B: Just a smidge. I want to know what was the driving factor of you guys moving? And then I'm sure that Kate's going to have all kinds of questions because she is very questioning.
[00:01:54] Speaker D: The driving factor for us, moving truly was joy and living our life to the fullest and being able to be in a place where we felt like we could be ourselves and the best version of ourselves and make decisions for ourselves.
[00:02:13] Speaker C: Interesting.
[00:02:14] Speaker B: And so what is it all? Moving to Alabama, which might, if you haven't been to Gulf Shores and you hear I moved to Alabama because it made me happy. That might sound completely bizarre to anybody. What was it know that changed from Spokane, from eastern Washington, where you have tons of sunshine and stuff going from there to southern Alabama on that little fingertip that touches the Gulf. What is it that, why there? WhaT's so joyful? What's so happy and great about it?
[00:02:48] Speaker D: A couple of things, truly. We came here six years ago for work, and the whole time we were here, we kept looking at each other and saying, we could live here. We could live here. Why don't we live here? And then life kept us in Spokane for six years.
And we really realized this past winter that we were at a point in our lives where we could make different decisions. And those decisions didn't have to be based on anyone else's thoughts or opinions. And that's truly one of the things that I just had a light bulb moment about literally ten minutes ago, was the fact that, for me, a lot of joy comes from being able to make a decision in my life that's based off of my life and my husband and what we need, not so much about what outside forces need. And so Gulf Shores presented the opportunity for us to build a life by choice, and we secretly moved. We didn't tell most people. Rob was one of the lucky ones. Who knew?
[00:03:52] Speaker C: It just got juicy with the secret move.
[00:03:54] Speaker B: It was maybe not covert, but it was on the down low.
[00:03:58] Speaker C: Interesting.
[00:03:59] Speaker D: It was super quiet. We didn't even say we were here for three or four weeks. It was like, so what, did you.
[00:04:06] Speaker C: Just send out Christmas cards? Be like, oh, and BS, we don't live here anymore.
[00:04:11] Speaker D: We randomly one night went to dinner on the beach, which total joy. And we looked at each other and we're like, I guess people should know that we live here now. Should we announce it? And we put up a Facebook post that said, sweetheart, Alabama is reality. And we moved to the beach and.
[00:04:28] Speaker C: That, wow, that is daring. I like it.
[00:04:33] Speaker B: It's an aggressive move.
[00:04:34] Speaker C: I'll see.
[00:04:34] Speaker B: It's an aggressive move to do what you need to do for your own.
[00:04:40] Speaker C: That's pretty impressive.
I feel like it was funny as you were telling your story. I was like, oh, I tend to be a self proclaimed joy skeptic because I don't.
[00:04:57] Speaker B: I'm from Pennsylvania.
[00:04:58] Speaker C: I'm from Pennsylvania. We don't really do that. I'm from Philly. We're kind of, like, tough. But I think know. When my husband and I decided to move to St. Augustine, it was kind of on a whim, and it was just a weekend of like, wow, this is really beautiful here. We don't have to live in Philadelphia, where it's, like, cold and raining and snowing and half the year. So I get that. I really do kind of connect with that. We did not secretly do it. We told everyone and did not care what they said. People were like, it's the bugs. I was like, I don't care. It's snowing here. I'm out.
[00:05:35] Speaker D: We really just wanted to do it where we knew. It was our decision. It was the house we chose, it was the design we chose, the location we chose. We just didn't want the pressure of anyone else's emotional.
[00:05:51] Speaker C: What I think that that know in talking about Joy and like Rob said, we talk about this a lot. I think a lot of our life decisions go into, how does it affect everybody else? Which I mean, rightly know you have to think how things are going to affect other people, but also, you can't live your life by the rules of others.
[00:06:14] Speaker D: Can we put that on a billboard?
[00:06:17] Speaker C: Yeah. So I really think that people.
You do get hung up in all of the rigor. Moral of there's a lot of people get stuck in the same place for a long time.
[00:06:32] Speaker B: So in thinking about you guys making the big change and knowing there's different things, like there's family, there's jobs, all of that stuff, what were kind of the moments or kind of like the milestones that you knew you had to hit before you could not just make a move, but really kind of change your approach to life and make those decisions that were purely for your guys'happiness? Was there like, a watershed moment or some. I hate that word.
Was there something like that that really triggered it for you? What was the thing?
[00:07:14] Speaker D: It was a combination of things. There was a week of negative 35 weather in Spokane where we couldn't leave the house and our pipes froze.
[00:07:21] Speaker B: Oh, that's right.
[00:07:21] Speaker C: I remember that would do it for me.
[00:07:24] Speaker D: A week without showering and doing dishes and not really wanting to leave the house because it's so cold really makes you think about the beach a lot.
So that really was when we were like, maybe we should just go see what the housing market looks like. Let's just go to the beach. Let's just feel it out. And then my husband reached 25 years with the state, and so we knew he had reached that milestone. We had thought about going to 30, but we actually had to sit down and look at if that next five years, what is that going to do for our health and happiness? Yes, it's more retirement money, but if we don't spend this next five years living our life, does that money make a difference down the road? Can we make it up in other ways? And so we had to sit down and have a lot of financial conversations, a lot of deep, emotional conversations about what does make us happy. Why does this move feel so needed? And are there things that we need to heal internally so that when we do make the move, we can be in the best place possible?
[00:08:36] Speaker B: So that's something we were just talking about today is, like, money, trauma, and the things that we kind of connect with, making decisions based off of finance and fear. Yeah, huge. And it applies to every single aspect of life. We were talking about it in terms of spending money on travel that we each have coming up. But then it really spills into absolutely everything else, including the decision about where you live.
For me, it's the decision to commit funds to outdoor space to enjoy the place we live and to make sure that our kids are outdoor kids?
[00:09:14] Speaker C: Well, and I think, too, there's even a financial aspect to the joy piece, because there are people who. What brings them joy is financial independence. We know so many people that have traded in their big house for a smaller lifestyle, and they are living in their camper and driving around the country and things.
So I think it's individualized for everybody. As you know, one of the things that Rob and I talk about is, too, is like, we do talk a lot. One of the things that we talk a lot about is, because, again, I'm going to be the skeptic here, but it's like, what is the difference between joy and happiness, right. And contentment? So there are things that can make you happy.
But do you feel like finding joy is ultimately like finding that contentment in your life and just that you can now kind of exist in a lifted environment, for lack of a better word, 100%.
[00:10:31] Speaker D: I think coming to a place, it's not just contentment, but understanding where you are in your life. Coming from a point of losing my job, having credit card debt and having to dig out of it, it was very hard to be in a space of joy when you're worried about how are you going to pay your next bill or put a meal on the plate to working through that. Working through a lot of money trauma, which we could do a whole three hour thing on, and coming to a place of what makes me content on a day to day basis and gives me a platform to be happy and to be joyful. I think there are joyful moments in every day. I saw a thing on social media the other day that was actually good. And it talked about.
It was actually good.
It talked about looking for the glimmers in the day and the things that make you kind of feel warm and fuzzy or bring you joy during the day.
[00:11:29] Speaker C: Right. Tapping into that positivity and tap into that positivity.
[00:11:32] Speaker D: And sometimes I think there's this expectation that joy and happiness is this massive thing. It's this big giant trip or it's this big thing, but those only happen so many times in our lives or in our day or in our week. So finding joy in the most random of moments, I feel like, continually uplifts where you feel on a day to day basis.
[00:11:57] Speaker C: Yeah, I would agree with you. And I think it is the financial trauma. And when you have things that are weighing on you, it's hard to get to the place where you can look for those glimmers of positivity in your day. You're so stuck in that stress, you're stuck in that fight or flight response kind of situation that it's hard to see the good, so to speak. So I totally understand that.
[00:12:35] Speaker D: And I think that's the most important time in our lives to find those small moments and try to build upon compounding them. My husband and I, every night before we go to bed, say three things we're grateful for from the day.
[00:12:49] Speaker C: You guys, I love that my husband doesn't say that. Need to work on this.
[00:12:56] Speaker D: It's amazing. It's just three things. And when we first started years ago, it felt like it had to be big things. Like, I'm grateful for something massive. But now sometimes I'm grateful we got out and walked on the beach today, I'm grateful the cats didn't break something. The little things sometimes feel like the biggest things. And that's how we end our day. And right before we go to bed and hopefully that sets us up to start the next day in a better place.
[00:13:26] Speaker C: That's awesome. I might have to incorporate that into my daily life.
[00:13:33] Speaker B: So thinking about that, since you did the move, you moved 3000 miles. You went from the cold winters to the, oh, my gosh, let's go for a morning walk before sunrise.
What do you feel like is the predominant thing that is bringing you this new kind of almost perpetual joy? And I know that it's not always going to be like that because once.
[00:14:00] Speaker D: The new, I need the newness to last. Don't jinx me.
[00:14:04] Speaker B: Oh, no.
So it's funny, gosh, how long you've lived here for 17 years or so.
[00:14:10] Speaker C: I've lived here for about 20.
[00:14:11] Speaker B: Yeah. So we walk on the beach three mornings a week. And it's funny because there's days where I'm just enamored, staring at the ocean, unable to speak or just saying repeatedly how much I love it and how happy I am. And something she said is, wow, that's amazing that you feel that way still.
And I feel like that is never going to wear off. And I feel like you are starting to appreciate the beach so much more. Not that you didn't.
[00:14:43] Speaker C: I'm definitely appreciating the beach so much more because we're spoiled brats. Let me just preface with that. And we live like three blocks from the beach. And when we moved here, we would go to the beach all the time. We would walk the dog, and it was great. And I feel like with life and kids and jobs and the regular, everyday rat race, we were going less and less until we kind of were like, oh, I know. It's know. And it was great when Rob and Chris moved here, because now they're walking distance from our house. And my husband even said the other day, he was like, I love how much they love going to the beach because it gets us going to the. You know, they'll be like, hey, we're going to go up to the beach with the kids. Do you guys want to meet up? And they're kind of renewing our love of it.
[00:15:36] Speaker B: Joy is contagious.
[00:15:39] Speaker C: And it is like when you watch someone experience something that you used to love or you experienced when you watch them experience it for the first time.
When I see my kids sit on Santa's lap and they're smiling from ear to ear, there's just things that I think that renew that joy. You know what I mean?
[00:16:05] Speaker D: 100%. And I think finding those people are so important.
Watching Rob and Chris's move for the past couple of years was such an inspiration for us and having someone in our lives that I could be like, okay, I need to ask, am I crazy? What does this feel like? And to have those people in your life that bring you joy?
Priceless.
[00:16:33] Speaker C: Yeah.
I think it's inspirational.
[00:16:36] Speaker B: Well, it's funny, because our move here, it was kind of that twofold of we moved here because I really struggled to maintain a positive outlook on life in general in Washington because it's so.
Was initially, that was our first thought, know, moving to was. Was that of, wow, let's get out of this seasonal depression because it's so hardcore and so difficult to battle. And then the other side of it was one day I was talking to my friend Danielle, and she was like, we talked about financial independence and early retirement and all these things. And then we started to kind of spiral into all of those different things that make that happen. And one of those was moving to a place where it's not just a lower cost of living, but where you can upgrade your life by cutting ties with other things and by lightning the load. And that's what sealed the deal with us moving to Florida. And I feel like as we were talking about things before you guys made the move, it was something very similar, know, lightning the load in a place that makes you so happy. And I think that's something that, if there's one thing I could convince everybody in the world to do is to be someplace that they love with less, to experience more.
[00:17:54] Speaker C: Yes, I would agree. Well, and I think a lot of people are looking for that now. I mean, the social media is overrun with people who are looking for.
They're looking to get financial freedom.
When you are in debt and you're in a financial pickle, you're at the bottom of a well, trying to dig yourself to the top, and it's really hard to get out of that.
Great. Tammy Lee. I think it's great that you were like, I don't care what other people think. I'm doing this for us. But, I mean, there are decisions that we have to make like that. And I think that if it benefits your overall life, it's a no brainer. You just do it.
[00:18:46] Speaker D: And I should say we made sure that specific people in our life were.
I don't want to say handled, but taken care of.
[00:18:56] Speaker C: Right.
[00:18:57] Speaker D: And that our move did not put them in a financial or health predicament.
[00:19:04] Speaker C: You weren't like, hey, Grandma, we're leaving you on the side of the road. Bye.
[00:19:08] Speaker D: Exactly. And so that was one of the reasons it took us six years to move. From our initial thoughts coming here was the fact that we wanted to make sure that the people that relied on us for either emotional, physical health implications were in a better place or safe and things like that. And then once that decision and those things were handled, it freed us up to be able to really look at the decisions for us. And I think for anyone who's like, that's crazy, there's always these people. There's work, there's coworkers. I think it's really important to realize that it's your life and it's your joy. And if we spend every day making everyone else happy but forget to make ourselves happy, at some point, our wells dry, and it's a really dark place to be in.
And having dug out of that, I am a much better human being today, living in joy than I was a few years ago, not in a place of joy.
[00:20:15] Speaker B: Yeah. And it's not selfish to actively make decisions that are beneficial to your own well being.
[00:20:24] Speaker D: 100%.
[00:20:25] Speaker C: I would agree, because I feel like.
[00:20:26] Speaker B: A lot of people think that they go to that spot of selfiShness, like thinking that, oh, if I do this, then that's just all about me. Because so many of us are raised in a church or something, that really teaches us to always put others first in all things at all times and to be selfless. Exactly. That's exactly the word. And making these decisions for ourselves is not a selfish thing, but it's self preservation and then self proliferation or that's not the right word. What Would it be?
[00:21:02] Speaker D: Understanding you have value that as a HUMan Being. You have value to be a human being as your own individual self.
[00:21:11] Speaker C: Yeah. And I think that there are other Ways. Well, and as you said, if your well is empty, what do you have to contribute? How can you be selfless in the world when you have nothing left to give? So you have to have Something of value to put out into the world in order to be HelpfUl to others.
[00:21:35] Speaker B: And that is a great transition to something else that I wanted to talk about.
[00:21:38] Speaker C: Oh, great.
[00:21:39] Speaker B: WEll, no. So moving with moving, Tammy Lee's got something new in her life that I'm not in her brain. So I can't tell what she is actually prioritizing, but I can tell that she has a new website, Gulf coast journeys, that's all about where she lives and Gulf coast. And I can tell that she gets so stoked and absolutely jams out on working on that over most other things. And I can tell that it's true. Am I wrong?
[00:22:11] Speaker D: You're not wrong.
[00:22:13] Speaker B: So why don't you tell us about that and how that is factoring into both your new life and why you are finding such joy in this new project?
[00:22:27] Speaker D: The new project. Oh, My gosh. Golf sister needs it. Does it brings me so much joy. One.
[00:22:32] Speaker B: See, she started talking a lot faster.
[00:22:34] Speaker C: Once I started talking.
[00:22:35] Speaker D: NoTice that I just get so EXcited. I meAn, you SHOuLD SeE MY HaNds. They're like flying there.
It's pushing us to get out and explore new places and to support small businesses, which is a huge thing for me. And to Find the unexpected in our backyard.
And having been here multiple times before moving, we always went to the same restaurant. We went to our favorite places. But realizing that just in Gulf Shores, in Orange beach, there's like 200 restaurant choices, approximately.
[00:23:10] Speaker B: Holy cow.
[00:23:11] Speaker D: And if I keep going to the same ten, I'm missing an opportunity to learn about newspaper places.
And so it brings me so much joy to the point I had to schedule it this week that I had X amount of time to work on that. And the rest of the time I really needed to do the work I've been putting off for a few weeks.
[00:23:31] Speaker C: That's awesome. That's great.
[00:23:37] Speaker B: Knowing that you're really kind of pouring into this and you are having to kind of reprioritize. Do you feel like as you are reallocating your time, that you are making decisions differently so that you can spend more time doing the things that you love that are new? Or are you trying to find. Trying to remember why you enjoyed what you did before with Tammy Lee tips, with Park Ranger John, with your other websites before all this? How is that? As far as you setting aside time for what is making you happy, I.
[00:24:11] Speaker D: Think the move really helped us reprioritize our time in general. I actually had a conversation yesterday about sitting down and having to think about where am I at today and what does my life need today versus what my life needed four months ago, a year ago, two years ago, because I was beating up on myself, because I wasn't doing what I would have done last November or the November before. And I had to really sit down and meditate on the thoughts of, like, my life isn't the same, my joy isn't the same. The things that make me happy aren't the same as what they were a year ago, five years ago. And why am I beating myself up right now for that? Instead, why not sit in the space I'm in today and figure out how it all plays out?
[00:25:07] Speaker C: I think that's awesome. I think it's so easy to get stuck.
So you kind of have to unstuck yourself every once in a while.
[00:25:16] Speaker D: Yeah.
I think so much of the lack of joy comes internally from beating up on ourselves, and that kind of falls back onto doing what others expect of you instead of what you need for your soul and taking the time, even if it's five minutes in the car, in a parking lot, in quiet, to just say, what do I need right now in my life? To have more happiness, to have more joy or to just take a deep breath?
[00:25:46] Speaker C: Yeah, I think it's hard to make time for self reflection.
[00:25:52] Speaker B: I try not to.
[00:25:56] Speaker C: Yeah. Because it can get dark sometimes.
[00:25:59] Speaker B: I'll spiral and I'll forget about all the amazing things that are happening and just the evolution of our lives. And I forget about that whole thing of, oh, my gosh, where we are today is so different from where we were six months ago. Six months ago for us. We were in this nightmare of a house sale situation where people were threatening legal action if we didn't give them thousands and thousands of additional dollars off the sale price. And I remember being anxious in the middle of the night, and now we're in a spot where we are just so happily in our new house and I don't have to set aside time to battle things out with real estate agents now. I get to record a podcast episode and then go for a walk on the beach. And this is a completely different world I'm living in now. And I have completely different needs than I did six months ago.
[00:26:56] Speaker D: 100%.
[00:26:58] Speaker C: And I think that that self reflection is.
It can get dark, because I think that people tend to focus on the negative and really kind of taking the time to reflect on what your needs are, how they've changed, how your life is different, and focus on the positive and focus on what will make it positive, what you can do to make it positive moving forward.
[00:27:27] Speaker D: I read a study the other day that it can only. Don't quote me on the exact time, but it's only like eight to 10 seconds to reframe your brain so that if you're in a negative spiral, planting your feet and having a deep breath and saying, okay, this is the good. I'm not living in this place. And then focusing on something good for eight to 12 seconds can completely be a Brain shift because I have the same anxiety spiral. And once I go down it, it's a great roller coaster.
Fun.
[00:28:00] Speaker B: Wow, that's a really fast.
You have to train yourself to maneuver that well.
[00:28:08] Speaker C: It's the whole, this too shall pass, but in the moment, that's hard to live by.
[00:28:14] Speaker D: And how much of it is self inflicted. And that's something I found for myself. Doing a lot of self work in the past few years is how much of my emotional balance was self inflicted, where I was focusing on things that were not bringing me joy and doing the mindset shift of giving myself moments of joy and creating scheduled joy. In the beginning, where we started doing mystery dates so that my husband didn't know where we were going or I didn't know we were going. And it was this just moment of unknown which sparked joy, because thankfully, my husband is very good at planning a date. And so we did that to just get out of the house and break things up. Now I have a literal coffee cup lid on my desk filled with shells from the beach. And so when I'm stressed, I look at the shells, and it calms me down. And so just creating those moments in your life, I think that bring you back to the joy, because the anxiety spiral is ugly. It is not fun.
[00:29:23] Speaker C: Yeah.
[00:29:25] Speaker B: Well, to wrap up, I just had one final question for each of you, actually.
[00:29:29] Speaker C: Oh, great.
[00:29:31] Speaker B: And my question was just, if there is one thing that kind of recenters you on your joy and your happiness in the moment, especially after talking about the potential spirals you can go through, what is that like you just mentioned shells, but if you're not at your desk and you're like, oh, God, life, what brings you back to center and helps you move on?
Either one.
[00:29:54] Speaker C: Tammy, you go first.
[00:29:58] Speaker D: I try to take a really deep breath and find three things that bring me joy or make me smile or catch my attention in the moment and plant myself in that moment. And, I mean, sometimes it's literally in the grocery store and I'm like, oh, well, that's really random. Wouldn't have thought that was a product. And it's just something so weird. But it brings me back to the moment right then and not getting focused on all the other things.
[00:30:28] Speaker C: A little taste of reality. Yeah.
[00:30:31] Speaker B: What about you?
[00:30:31] Speaker C: I would say for me, and it's funny that you read that study, Tammy Lee, because I was thinking about this when you were saying that, I was like, oh, this is kind of something I do.
I focus on the future.
And when I say the future, I mean the very soon future. So if I'm in a situation that is stressful or I'm in even a confrontation with somebody, my husband says I handle confrontation really well, but I think I handle it well because I focus on the hour after it. And even if I'm stuck in traffic and I'm late for something, I focus on, eventually I'm going to get there. So I'm focused on the getting to the destination and what I'm going to do when I'm there and the people that I'll see and so on and so forth. Focusing on that this is only a moment in my life and this is not the entirety of my life gets me out. It breaks that cycle of anxiety.
[00:31:41] Speaker B: And something else that I think you are particularly good at is being able to separate people from the moment. And when you get frustrated or angry with people, you have this bizarre skill of being able to know that that is just a moment and that the next time you see that person, it will be a completely fresh interaction.
[00:31:59] Speaker C: Yeah, it's fascinating.
[00:32:01] Speaker D: I don't know too many people who.
[00:32:02] Speaker B: Can do that the way that you do that.
[00:32:04] Speaker C: We're not a product of our bad days. Right. And certainly I don't want to be judged by my bad days. Lord knows I have them. So you're not always going to get my best self, and I don't want people to be their takeaway. So I always give people the benefit of the doubt that every day is new.
[00:32:29] Speaker B: And then for me, because I want to share, too.
[00:32:31] Speaker C: Yes, please do.
[00:32:32] Speaker B: The thing that always kind of brings me back around is actually just changing my scenery, even when it is just changing the room that I'm in in our house, leaving the spot where I was in that funk or having that moment and taking a step outside or just literally walking into the bathroom into the dark and closing the door just for 30 seconds completely shifts me. And that's my handy dandy way that I do it.
[00:33:00] Speaker C: Yeah, I've actually heard many people use that. It's great. It's like a reset, like when you walk into a room, your brain.
[00:33:06] Speaker B: Yeah. So totally works well. Cool. Thank you for being on Tammy Lee. We need to have you back on to actually talk more about Bama and all that. For sure.
[00:33:16] Speaker D: All the goodness of the beach. That's just amazing right now.
[00:33:19] Speaker B: It really is. And then, yeah, if you would like to give Tammy Lee a follow, jump onto the grams at Tamilitips and then also at Park Ranger John. So John, her husband, is awesome. And together they run several websites. And if you are into national parks, it's a great resource. It might even be a better resource than two travel dads.
And then also be sure to check the show notes to get access to their websites and see everything going on there. Thanks so much for being on. And yeah, I can't wait to have.
[00:33:57] Speaker C: You back to meet you.
[00:33:58] Speaker D: So good to meet you.
[00:34:00] Speaker B: And you guys will meet in person.
[00:34:01] Speaker C: I'm going to come to Gulf Shores.
[00:34:04] Speaker D: Yeah.
[00:34:04] Speaker C: I'm going to see if it brings me joy.
[00:34:07] Speaker B: Cool. Well, thanks for tuning in and be sure to check us
[email protected]. As well as on Instagram and everywhere else at two travel dads and we will talk to you later.
[00:34:19] Speaker A: Two Travel Dads podcast is written and produced by Rob and Chris Taylor in St. Augustine, Florida. Check out past episodes in detailed show
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