[00:00:04] Speaker A: Welcome to two Travel Dads podcast. Here we share our favorite destinations, travel tips, stories from our adventures, and tips for saving money. Be sure to subscribe and check out our detailed show
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[00:00:22] Speaker B: Hey, welcome back to another episode of two Travel Dads podcast. I am your loyal host, Rob, and today I have an awesome guest who has been on with us before. Last time, she was chatting it up all about Washington, DC and the cherry blossoms, because that's awesome. And today, Miss Karen means, who runs I can't speak Twist travel magazine. She's back with us and say, hi, Karen.
[00:00:51] Speaker C: Hey.
[00:00:52] Speaker B: And what are we going to talk about today?
[00:00:55] Speaker C: Today we're going to talk about Ireland, one of my favorite countries to visit in the world and one of the easiest countries to visit with kids.
[00:01:02] Speaker B: Oh, well, that was one of the most perfect segues into questions I've ever had.
Well, so first off, before we do get into all that, you have been to Ireland. How many times or how many days, collectively have you spent in Ireland? Because I feel like you're always there.
[00:01:22] Speaker C: I'm always there. I think I've been there for about a month total.
[00:01:28] Speaker B: Cool.
[00:01:29] Speaker C: And then I'm going back for another two and a half weeks in May to explore even more.
[00:01:34] Speaker B: That's amazing.
So why Ireland? What is it about Ireland? Do you have heritage there that you go and you seek out? Is it something where it's just so cool and beautiful and you're not worried about getting, like, what's the scoop?
[00:01:49] Speaker C: Well, odly enough, you can get sunburnt in Ireland, which we'll talk about later, but no Ireland. I do have very strong irish heritage, as you might be able to tell if there's a photo of me with the red hair.
And it was one of those places, like, I kind of ignored for a long time. But then my parents were like, let's go to Ireland. So all the families, we packed up and we went, and I just kind of fell in love with the people, with the landscape.
The food's pretty good. I wouldn't say it's Greece or anything, but it's one of those easy places that you can go because everybody speaks English and all the street signs are in English. And despite driving on the opposite side of the road than we are used to, it's just a very accessible place for people to go if they want to get out of the country.
[00:02:41] Speaker B: That's a solid answer. I love that. And it's actually, we recorded, Kate and I recorded a podcast episode about international travel and feeling kind of overwhelmed by it. And then she came back on and we talked about how once you kind of cross that threshold of seeing how accessible and easy it is, it makes you want to go and visit everywhere. Do you feel like that's one of those things about Ireland, is that it's kind of like a gateway country to wanting to explore more?
[00:03:12] Speaker C: Absolutely. If you just want to kind of dip your toes into the european scene, this is a very easy place to do that.
[00:03:19] Speaker B: So do you prefer doing that with or without?
[00:03:22] Speaker C: Know, it's kind of a toss up. I like it with both. Without kids, it just gives me a little bit more flexibility of what I want to do. I've done Ireland with young kids and with teens and tweens. Now, my boys, actually, now that they're teens and tweens, still think Ireland is one of their favorite places. But, yeah, I don't know. I think it's equally as good. It just depends on what you want to.
[00:03:46] Speaker B: So what's different about visiting with kids? What is it that you can't do or choose not to do when you've got the whole family there? Know Karen off gallivanting around Killarney?
[00:04:00] Speaker C: Well, especially with traveling with younger kids who just have to be with you all the time, unless you can find a babysitter. You just kind of have that flexibility when you're by yourself to kind of jump around, see a bunch of stuff or just sit and kind of absorb the scenery around you, which Ireland does have some very dramatic coastline and scenery, and little kids might want to move on faster than that, or they might not want to move on at all. They just want to kind of sit and you might have to deal with nap times, teens and tweens. It's a little easier because, yes, I do leave my kids in Airbnbs and hotels so I can go out to a pub with my husband. But the great thing about Ireland is pubs are family friendly. You can go, you can have a meal and your kids can sit with.
[00:04:46] Speaker B: Actually, especially living in America, that is lovely.
[00:04:51] Speaker C: Yeah, it's so much easier. And there's so much that happens in the local pub, especially the small towns, that I feel like is really good for kids to. It's. Things happen in a really good way, like music or just conversations.
Watching soccer or football over there with people. And my kids are big soccer fans, so they get right in there with the older gentlemen at the bar who are yelling at the tv.
[00:05:19] Speaker B: That's kind of awesome. That's definitely some cultural immersion there.
[00:05:23] Speaker C: Oh, yeah.
[00:05:24] Speaker B: Actually so why don't we kind of jump into that, actually? So, Ireland. So I know that for know, we are very thoughtful about the sorts of experiences that we do with our kids, and we don't want know, traips, know, culturally appropriating or things like that, but we like to kind of be immersed and learn about the place that we're visiting. Is Ireland a good spot for that? Or is it something where you need to visit as the outside? Like, how does that roll with.
[00:05:52] Speaker C: So I feel like Ireland many. So their two big traditions are dance and music, and there's irish sessions usually almost every night in most of the pubs, which means sometimes it's professional musicians coming in and playing a set for you. But there are other pubs where it's just like the local guys come with their fiddles and whatever else. And if you happen to play the fiddle or a guitar or a banjo, whatever, you are welcome to join the circle and play with them. And I've seen Americans, I've seen french students who are also waitresses at the pub. I've seen everybody just kind of pop in and settle in as part of the community, and then anybody else who just wants to listen or sing along or clap along is really welcome to do that.
[00:06:42] Speaker B: Does everybody play an instrument there?
[00:06:44] Speaker C: Does everybody in Ireland play an instrument?
[00:06:46] Speaker B: I mean, that's what it kind of sounds like. You go to the pub, they just got their gear.
[00:06:50] Speaker C: No, but I feel like the most I see is the older generations coming in and just playing a lot of traditional irish tunes. And then you'll see, like, an american guitar player whip out his guitar and start playing. I mean, obviously they assume you have some kind of skill. You're not just somebody who's there to be taught how to play, but it's like a jam session. I mean, it's an unspoken rule that you're invited to do it. If it's a community event, love, it's.
[00:07:18] Speaker B: Like irish MTV unplugged. Yeah, awesome.
[00:07:21] Speaker C: And then irish dance. I actually have one of the funniest stories is you will see shows and advertise and everything. But we were in dingle our first time, and we saw that this one pub had an irish dancer that was going to maybe perform, and we go in and we order some food with the kids. It's like five or 06:00 at night, and our waiter, he's like, oh, yeah, you should totally stick around. Like, david's going to come out and play. He's one of, like, the world champs, whatever. So we're like, okay, cool. So we eat and then we're hanging out the bar with the kids because we're like, man, this is going to awesome. And then I kind of go up to our waiter. I'm like, hey, do you know when he's going to start? We just got kids. He's like, yeah, he's going to start in five minutes, don't worry. Waiter walks outside, changes his shoes and starts to warm up because that is David, who is a world champion irish step dancer. And his parents happen to own the dingle pup. So he goes and he plays a set whenever he's in town where he dances a little set. And my kids still talk about it to this day.
[00:08:21] Speaker B: I'm really unfamiliar with this because this is not my zone of entertainment. Live music makes me anxious. Things like that.
When we're talking about dancing in a pub or irish step in general, are we talking like small scale river dance or are we talking like that scene in Titanic below decks?
[00:08:41] Speaker C: It is small scale river dance in this case. I mean, I'm sure there are places where the scenes of the Titanic takes place. I just haven't experienced that. But because this was a professional performer, I think there's a specific kind of board you have to be able to do the step dancing on with those type of shoes so you don't wreck your parents pub floor. So he basically kept it his square and did his dance.
[00:09:07] Speaker B: Awesome. Love it. That's extremely unique and perfect for what we're talking about as far as that sort of cultural opportunity. I love it. So knowing that you have been quite a few times that you're going back, if you had to pick two or three of your favorite places or regions in Ireland, what would you say is spot on? You got to go here for your first visit or this is like the best intro.
[00:09:40] Speaker C: Number one, you'd have to go to the Dingle peninsula, which is next to Killarney and the Ring of Kerry. But it's on a smaller scale and it's a lot less crowded still. Even though it's becoming more and more popular, I still feel like you're never going to have the kind of traffic that you have on the ring of Carrie because you can easily do a lot of the peninsula. There's a drive called Sleighhead drive. You could do that in like an hour or two if you drove nonstop. But you're going to want to stop a bunch because there's some really cool hikes and there's spots where the newer Star wars films were filmed at and yeah, it's one of those wonderful, dramatic places. And I have a Northern Ireland friend who found out we were going back to Ireland. She's like, you got to go to Dingle. Everybody has to know where Dingle is. And I'm like, oh, yeah, we're going back. Don't worry.
[00:10:26] Speaker B: Cool. Okay.
[00:10:28] Speaker C: Dingle would be number one. Our past trip, we got up north to the Sligo and Donegal region, where I had found out on our first trip to Ireland is where my ancestors are from. So it's kind of that section of the island that is next to Ireland. So it's, again, it's like Dingle. You get those dramatic coastlines. I had somebody at the cliffs of Moore tell me that her sister lived up in the town of Donegal, and she thought it was the most beautiful place in all of Ireland because of the beaches up there. Which Ireland? You don't think about beaches at all. But it really does have some of the most magnificent beaches. It has great surfing.
There's swimming holes.
[00:11:10] Speaker B: Surfing in Ireland.
[00:11:12] Speaker C: Yes, surfing in Ireland.
[00:11:13] Speaker B: Okay. I just wanted to make sure that I did actually hear you correctly, because I live in Florida, you live in California. I can't imagine surfing in Ireland.
[00:11:22] Speaker C: Well, I mean, think about the storms that are coming off the. So, like, those waves are getting there. I mean, there's definitely, like, on the Dingle peninsula, there's inch beach, which is a huge, very long, wide beach, but they have surf lessons there and surf camp for, like, $100 a week for kids to do. And it was weird, and I haven't done it, and my kids weren't brave enough to try because of the cold water. But, yeah, one of these days, I'm going to get my kids to start fireland.
[00:11:53] Speaker B: Okay, so we've got dingle, we've got Donegal. And then what's your third pick?
[00:11:59] Speaker C: I feel like I should pick another d.
Let's say duelin.
And this is a place everybody's going to want to go because Duelin is the town closest to the cliffs of Moore. It also has the cliffs of Moore walking path that you can walk from town over to the cliffs, which are some of the most dramatic and best known cliffs in all of Ireland. As a warning, before we talk, please, please stay behind the barriers, because people have fallen off the cliffs of Moore trying to get photos, and the ground is crumbling out from under them because it is so unstable.
[00:12:36] Speaker B: Wow.
[00:12:37] Speaker C: But Duelin is one of those towns that if you go to Gus O'Connor's pub, which has been there forever, on any given night you can find an irish session going on that you can join if you're also a musician. My dad has popped in. He's still like our last time there, he was chatting with a guy that he'd met the last time. The guy still remembered him.
That is one of those places where you can. There's a lot of more daytime tourists because everybody's trying to go to the cliffs of Moore, but at night it kind of clears out a little bit and it's a lot more of just the community and people who really want to dig in a little bit more. Plus their Guinness steak stew is probably one of my favorite things in the.
[00:13:16] Speaker B: Entire country, which leads me to one of the questions that I've got Guinness.
I personally, I don't like it. Is it really like the milk of Ireland?
Is everybody pounding Guinness all the time?
[00:13:33] Speaker C: Yeah, I guess it's Guinness and whiskey, like Jameson. But I am also not a beer drinker. My husband will drink a Guinness when he's in Ireland. It's not know what is it? It's a stout, so that's not usually his beer of choice. But it is better in Ireland, I've been told, than it is in America. But only if you get draught. If you get it in a can or a bottle in Ireland, it tastes pretty much the same as in the US. There's something about that draught now for people like you and me.
Dingle has an amazing gin that I was seeking out everywhere we were in the Republic of Ireland. When we got up to Northern Ireland, there was a totally different gin that I'm still trying to get, so you can try, but the gin scene in Ireland is growing.
[00:14:19] Speaker B: That's interesting. Love it. Good times. And you kind of. Sorry, I'm going to reel back for just a hot second because you mentioned that your family, that you guys hail ultimately from that Donegal area. Have you guys gone over with the intent of doing a heritage style tour? I know that's a popular thing to do in different areas. Have you gotten to do that yet?
[00:14:44] Speaker C: So we kind of did it just my little family, not my extended family. We did it unofficially on our last trip just to kind of see the area. We didn't go out looking for great, great aunts or anything like that just because I am fifth generation at this point.
Some of them came over after the Mayflower. A lot came over with the famine. So having family that would actually go, oh, yes, you are. Our family is going to be pretty rare, I think.
[00:15:15] Speaker B: Got you. Okay.
[00:15:16] Speaker C: But it was still fun to just kind of be like, okay, my people were on this land at some point. This is kind of the area that we were in.
[00:15:22] Speaker B: Got it. That totally makes sense. And I always kind of wonder about that because especially, like, in the northeast, there's so much irish heritage and very proud people who are either from Ireland or Scotland they love.
So I'm always kind of curious how that kind of trickles across the country, but that makes so. But you also mentioned Northern Ireland. So when it comes to visiting Ireland, is it something that nowadays, is there any complexity to visiting Northern Ireland in addition to the Republic of Ireland? Is it something that just easy peasy, drive yourself up there. What's the scoop?
[00:16:02] Speaker C: There is zero complexity. We knew it would be hard, but we didn't know just how easy it would be to the point that we didn't even know we'd entered Northern Ireland until our gps changed from kilometers to miles. That was the only thing that told us that we were in a different country.
[00:16:18] Speaker B: Gotcha. Well, that answers that question. I really thought we were going to have some good chat about that. But I guess time has passed enough that that is kind of a moot point now, which is awesome.
[00:16:30] Speaker C: Yeah, I mean, the sheep can cross, so I guess we can, too.
[00:16:34] Speaker B: Well, so then it sounds like it is really easy to get around Ireland. Is it something where it's got trains and public transportation enough that you could navigate without having to have a car? Or is Ireland still very much get a rental car and Ireland is a road trip?
[00:16:54] Speaker C: For me, Ireland will always be a road trip because you can get into, know, tiny nooks and crannies that the trains just won't get you to. The trains are good. They can get you out of Dublin and into some of the larger towns and cities. But personally, I would always opt to have a car just because you're going to see more. My favorite thing is when I tell the gps where I want to go and it takes me down, like a tractor road to save two minutes and there's a tractor road I never would have seen. And I'm like, I'm pretty sure that sheep have been down here, but no cars have been.
So I think it just adds to that spontaneity and finding things that you would never find if you were just like, I'm going to go from Dublin to Killarney and then Killarney up to the town that's closest to Duelin because Duelin doesn't have a train station. So then you're going to have to take like a bus or a taxi or something in. I know a lot of people hire private drivers just because they don't want to have to deal with driving on the left. I think if you are a confident driver, though, it is something your brain can and will switch over to.
If you're just kind of patient with yourself, if you drive a stick shift, that's your call. If you want to shift with your left hand, but the pedals are still on the same side for you.
[00:18:13] Speaker B: So something like hiring a driver, would you consider that like a luxury visit to Ireland? They would do that. Or is it something that is really actually kind of standard and easy and an expensive way to do that?
[00:18:26] Speaker C: I would say it's not the most economical, but it's not a luxury thing either. It's definitely something that's within reach. If you are not comfortable driving, you can hire yourself a driver.
[00:18:35] Speaker B: Got you. And sometimes spending a little extra to be able to not be stressed is totally worth it.
[00:18:42] Speaker C: Exactly. And also, one thing to note, with cars, rental cars, you have to have CDW, which is collision damage, waiver insurance on your car. In Ireland, I think probably too many people hit like, stone fences or something to the point they won't take most credit card insurance or travel insurance or your home car insurance. So that can add almost double what your rental car is. So in that case, sometimes getting that private driver could be cheaper.
If you only want to go out to the countryside for two or three days and the rest are going to be in Dublin, then absolutely, a private driver would be the better option.
[00:19:20] Speaker B: Interesting. That's really interesting.
And going out into the country, that's probably where you need to go if you want to see some of the cool historic sites and castles and things like that. Yeah.
[00:19:30] Speaker C: Yes.
[00:19:31] Speaker B: So let's talk about that for a second. Do you have a favorite castle?
[00:19:36] Speaker C: So the interesting thing with Ireland is they don't really like their castles, from what I understand.
[00:19:42] Speaker B: What I'm confused. Hold, please. What do you mean?
[00:19:44] Speaker C: How do you not, like, think about who built castles? It was the British who built castles in Ireland, and they continually oppressed the Irish. So unlike Scotland, where they still celebrate all their castles and the noble people that were there. Whether Scotland wants to secede or not, Ireland tore down a lot of its castles or has let a lot of their castles go to ruin. There are some notable ones. Ashford Castle is now a hotel. A lot of the ones that have stayed in shape have turned into hotels or private properties or something.
For me, Kilmore Abbey is probably one of the most beautiful places. And that is kind of on the drive from the cliffs of Moore up towards Northern Ireland and the Doneicle Sligel area in Connemara National Park. I believe there are seven national parks in Ireland, and that is an easy and accessible one with some good mountains, but some good flat trails, too. But they also have this abbey that is still run by the nuns. And it used to be like a school. It used to be many things, but now tourists can go and they can tour the abbey and walk the grounds, and they have a beautiful walled garden. So while not a castle, it is a beautiful historic estate that you can see.
[00:20:59] Speaker B: Is it mostly. So, thinking about those historic places that I have in my mind, are they mostly those abbeys and churchyards and such that are kind of that dreamy, drippy, mossy irish architecture that I'm picturing versus it being castles? Is there lots of that?
[00:21:19] Speaker C: There are a lot of abbeys. Still, that's not to say there's no castles. I mean, in Kalarney, there's, like, Ross castle, and that looks like ancient medieval fortress, which I'm sure you would know in Northern Ireland. I think it was called Dunlow Castle. I think my family would have stayed the entire day there because it was a shell of a castle on a cliff that you could just kind of wander around. When I say shell, usually that means there's no roof because the roofs were not made of stone and there's crumbling walls, but there's still enough walls so you could kind of see what was happening back then.
But just the views, for me, were amazing. But my family is into rocks and castles in history and dungeonists and dragons. So I think I had sword fights going on in my kids heads at one point, and I was like, you need to stop. There's other people now.
[00:22:05] Speaker B: It's all that, very much.
Okay. Gotcha. That makes sense. So, this is great for me because we are looking at all the different options for this fall, and Ireland is one of the things on our list.
[00:22:20] Speaker C: Yeah, I'll go with you.
[00:22:23] Speaker B: Excellent. And then you can watch the kids.
[00:22:24] Speaker C: I'll drive. I'll watch the kids. It'll be great.
[00:22:27] Speaker B: No, but that's great, because when it comes to trying to figure out how to plan travel to a place that none of us have been, it's always kind of a mystery. And clearly, my perceptions are different from the reality. So, thinking about booking and planning, what would you say is your really most helpful kind of tip or anything for a first timer heading to Ireland? What is the one thing they should know or plan for as they're starting to put together a trip.
[00:22:58] Speaker C: I think the biggest thing you want to plan for is the cost of a rental car if you want one, just because it is going to be more than you think because of that insurance. And also in Europe, if you want an automatic car versus a manual car, automatics are going to be more expensive.
And then start booking where you want to be. If you're going in the summertime and you want to be in Killarney, you want to do the ring of carry. Book that right away. Book the most popular places if you want to go. Guess the Blarney stone.
Book your tickets to do that ahead of time if you can, and your hotel close.
I mean, we've been in the summer and we've been in the spring and we've never really had much trouble.
The bigger thing is put a flight tracker on trips to Ireland from your city so that you can get the best prices. I have paid $1,000. I have paid $450 to go to Ireland. So it all just depends on if you have flexibility and when you want to go and if you kind of pull the trigger to book that ticket when you see it at a price you like.
[00:24:04] Speaker B: Yeah. And I know that air Lingus also is a code share partner.
It is it with Alaska. I will, yeah. Because I feel like I've seen deals pop up in the so.
[00:24:16] Speaker C: Oh, air Lingus has had amazing deals. That's how I'm going back. This.
[00:24:20] Speaker B: Ah, you found one. Good.
[00:24:22] Speaker C: I just booked it and I have to still figure out the rest of the trip. But I was like, that's a cheap ticket from LA. Let's do it.
[00:24:27] Speaker B: Excellent. Love that for you. Excellent. And then, so also thinking about you're going in spring, you've been in summer. Is there anything when you're packing?
I love the idea of not having to tote around luggage everywhere and would much rather just have a backpack. But I also know that's not super realistic, especially when you've got kids. Is there any tips that you got about that whole kind of packing for Ireland or is it just like planning a trip to Seattle and you know, you're going to get a mixed bag of gray and rain and a day of sun?
[00:24:59] Speaker C: Yeah, kind of like packing. For know, depending on when you go, summers are obviously warmer. You're going to have less rain, but do you want a rain jacket with you? Yes. Does it need to be a ski park up? Probably not. But if you're going in late fall through early spring, it could be chillier when it's raining. So I had my little rubber boots and my raincoat with me and umbrellas for everybody. But we still managed to go carry on only with a backpack and a roller bag each, so it's possible.
[00:25:27] Speaker B: So one other question about that, thinking about, like, backpacking and carry on. So I've got a friend who just went to the UK, and she was flabbergasted at how much better the shopping deals were for cool clothes and shoes and things like that. Do you feel like you've seen that in Ireland as well? Or is that kind of a more specific, like, London sort of like, go for the shopping, bring back stuff?
[00:25:53] Speaker C: Well, if you go to Dublin or Belfast, for sure, I mean, they're going to have all the name brand stores and the boutiques and everything. The smaller the town, the less you're going to see a lot of the more touristed areas. If you ever wanted a wool sweater or a wool hat, that is where you're going to get it. Irish wool is still a really big thing. I pick up a couple skins of yarn from my mother in law every time we go.
[00:26:18] Speaker B: A couple of. Yeah, a what you call them, a scheme. What is it?
[00:26:24] Speaker C: A scheme of yarn.
[00:26:25] Speaker B: I have no idea. I've never heard that phrase before.
[00:26:28] Speaker C: All right, I get her a ball of yarn.
[00:26:30] Speaker B: Okay.
[00:26:31] Speaker C: A couple balls of yarn so she can knit herself something or weave.
But Ireland, because they do have a lot of sheep and they have a strong textile industry with their wool. That is something that's worth investing in. My sister bought a gorgeous blanket that she brought home. I am not a huge fan of wool, so that is not something that I tend to pick up.
[00:26:51] Speaker B: Sure.
[00:26:51] Speaker C: But, yeah, I mean, just think of it like anywhere else in the US. The bigger cities have more great shopping. The smaller ones might have a cute boutique that you'll find something or you might not.
[00:27:02] Speaker B: Awesome. Cool. Well, I think that wraps up all the questions that I had about it, because I just was more curious to actually hear what it's like. Because I've got this fully romanticized idea that Ireland is all green and lush and leprechauns and rainbows and all that stuff.
[00:27:19] Speaker C: I mean, it kind of is not going to lie. It's always green.
My sister was shocked. She's like, where's, like, the browns? I'm like, there's no brown. It's always green.
[00:27:28] Speaker B: Always green.
[00:27:29] Speaker C: Always green.
[00:27:30] Speaker B: That sounds refreshing. Probably for people in Arizona.
[00:27:34] Speaker C: Yeah.
[00:27:35] Speaker B: Good times. And then on your upcoming trip, you are going to be gone for how long.
[00:27:40] Speaker C: I think I'm going to be gone for two weeks in Ireland for about ten days. I'm popping over to London to see a friend, but this time I'm going to travel from Dublin down south to Cork and then over to Corney, kind of hitting that southeast coast, which I've never done before. So I'm super excited.
[00:27:58] Speaker B: So do you feel like ten days to two weeks is probably a really good way to explore island?
[00:28:05] Speaker C: Yes. The more time you can give yourself, the slower you can go so you can actually see things. I would not go for less than ten days, but that's just me. Some people like sprinting through places. I like to at least spend two nights in every place I go.
[00:28:18] Speaker B: That is also how I like to do things. Because otherwise you're just exhausted.
[00:28:23] Speaker C: Yeah, and the kids hate you by the end.
[00:28:25] Speaker B: Good times. Well, cool. Thanks so much for sharing all your tips and I'm excited to hear about your trip once you do it.
For info about what Karen loves about Ireland and everywhere else, be sure to check out twisttravelmag.com and I've got links in the show notes and over on the blog for that. And yeah, thanks for joining us. I love getting to have you on here and I'm excited to get to see you in New York City in a couple days.
[00:28:53] Speaker C: Woohoo. See you soon.
[00:28:55] Speaker B: All right, and go ahead. If you enjoyed listening to us chit chat, you can either hang out with us in person someday or just hit subscribe and stay tuned for more fun from me, more fun from Karen and all of our buddies in travel. Have a great rest of your day. Bye bye.
[00:29:12] Speaker A: Two Travel Dads podcast is written and produced by Rob and Chris Taylor in St. Augustine, Florida. Check out past episodes in detailed show
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